Posts Tagged ‘WHH’

Hurley and Miles – Space time dialogs…

January 4th, 2010 Comments off

In the episode “Whatever Happened, Happened” Miles and Hurley have a couple of key discussions about the nature of spacetime as it relates to being stuck in 1977.  I’m postulating that Miles’ summary will also prove to be correct if the Bomb changes everything #BCE

First part is when Sawyer sends Miles back to the barracks to sit on Jack, Kate and Hurley, since things are spiraling out of control.

[Miles is loading his rifle.]

JACK: You’re telling us we’re under house arrest?

MILES: No, you’re all free to leave whenever you want…but I’ll shoot you in the leg.

JACK: [Sighs] And whose idea was this?

MILES: Who do you think?

KATE: Sawyer’s just doing his job, Jack.

[Miles looks at Jack and points at Kate, emphasizing her point. Miles walks over to the table where Hurley is inspecting his hand.]

MILES: What the hell are you doing, Tubby?

HURLEY: Checking to see if I’m disappearing.

MILES: What?

HURLEY: "Back to the Future," man. We came back in time to the island and changed stuff. So if little Ben dies, he’ll never grow up to be big Ben, who’s the one who made us come back here in the first place. Which means we can’t be here. And therefore, dude? We don’t exist.

MILES: You’re an idiot. [Takes a seat at the table]


MILES: Yeah. It doesn’t work like that. You can’t change anything. You’re maniac Iraqi buddy shot Linus. That is what always happened. It’s just…we never experienced how it all turns out.

[Hurley looks at Jack, confused.]

HURLEY: This is really confusing.

MILES: Yeah, well, get used to it. But the good news is that Linus didn’t die, so that means the kid can’t either. He’ll be fine.

KATE: Didn’t look like he was gonna be fine. What if you’re wrong?

MILES: Well, if I’m wrong, then I guess we all stop existing, and none of it matters anyway then, does it?

Next miles and Hurley are sitting in the barracks (Kate has left after getting mad at Jack for not DOing SOMETHING!!!) and are still on the space time talk.

[Hurley is seated in the house, questioning Miles.]

HURLEY: Let me get this straight.

[Miles is pacing.]

HURLEY: All this already happened.


HURLEY: So this conversation we’re having right now…we already had it.

MILES: [Claps his hands] Yes!

HURLEY: Then what am I gonna say next?

MILES: I don’t know. [Shakes his head.]

HURLEY: Ha’! Then your theory is wrong!

MILES: For the thousandth time, you dingbat, the conversation already happened, but not for you and me. For you and me, it’s happening right now.

HURLEY: Okay, answer me this. If all this already happened to me, then…why don’t I remember any of it?

MILES: Because once Ben turned that wheel, time isn’t a straight line for us anymore. Our experiences in the past and the future occurred before these experiences right now.

[Hurley’s face tightens in confusion as he thinks, Miles stares at him.]

HURLEY: Say that again.

MILES: [Pauses in exasperation and pulls out his gun and holds it out for Hurley to take.] Shoot me. Please. Please!

HURLEY: Aha! I can’t shoot you. Because if you die in 1977, then you’ll never come back to the island on the freighter 30 years from now.

MILES: I can die because I’ve already come to the island on the freighter. Any of us can die because this is our present.

HURLEY: But you said Ben couldn’t die because he still has to grow up and become the leader of the Others.

MILES: Because this is his past.

HURLEY: But when we first captured Ben, and Sayid, like, tortured him, then why wouldn’t he remember getting shot by that same guy when he was a kid?

[Miles blinks and looks around. Hurley raises his eyebrow.]

MILES: Huh. I hadn’t thought of that.

HURLEY: Huh. [Crossing his arms.]


We learn later in the episode that Ben’s memory of getting shot are changed from being healed by Richard in the temple.  How that happened specifically is still a mystery.  This scene was cut between Kate, Roger and Juliet working on little Ben in the infirmary. So it was cut into the episode with a purpose, I think it explains to us how the time travel thing works in Lost’s universe.  So read on and read me BCmE theory again.

Categories: Television Tags: , , , ,

Bomb Changes (most) Everything.

January 4th, 2010 4 comments

Call it my #BCE post.  Since I started re-watching LOST I’ve been considering two options that I’d been thinking were mutually exclusive:

  • Whatever Happened Happened (#WHH) – Can’t change the past, whatever happened happened, one continuous timeline, and even though Daniel, Sawyer, Miles, Juliet, Hurley, Jin, Kate and Jack are in 1977, they still have memories of time that happened after that (before they jumped back in time in 2004 or 2007)
  • Bomb Changes Everything (#BCE) – This comes from Daniel’s revelation about focusing on the Variables, and that their actions can change the past, that if he can negate the magnetic anomaly then that changes the future.

But, what if I’m wrong?  What if they’re not mutually exclusive.  What if we can do both, whatever happened, happen while negating the magnetic anomaly and changing the need for button pressing to keep the massive magnetic field at bay, and the resultant accident that caused Oceanic 815 to crash on the island?

First we need to backtrack a bit, along these time-jumping soaked theories.  We were first introduced to the concept of time travel from the effects that turning the failsafe key had on Desmond.  He’d become a bit detached from time, his consciousness returning to the key moment where he’d tossed his ring in the river, and left Penny and joined the army, setting down a path where he’d enter the sailboat race to win Penny’s heart (or at least give him the assurance that he deserved Penny) which brought him to the island.  In that same story (Flashes Before Your Eyes) we were introduced to Eloise Hawking, who told Desmond that the Universe had a way of course correcting, she could have saved “red shoes” life that day, but he’d only die the next.  Trace that down the line and we get Daniel’s assertion that whatever happened, happened.

Desmond experimented with this line of thinking, setting his goal to save Charlie’s life, and if he could continue to do that, by his thinking, then we could change his future and end up with Penny and live happily ever after.  In The Constant we saw the culmination of this story, when we saw Desmond make a call from the freighter and reconnect with Penny (his Constant) and sets down the path to being saved from the island with the Oceanic 6 and going into hiding with Penny on their sailboat.

Desmond is special. I think Desmond IS the constant, by turning the failsafe key (at some point in the future) his being/consciousness is a constant which we can glean a nugget of proof from when Daniel made contact with him while hopping through time at the beginning of Season 5.  Daniel was able to get a message to ‘present day’ Desmond to seek out his mother (Elosie Hawking).  Odd cross-timeline communication.

Break for a second, and consider a scene from Fringe.  In the scene, Olivia was investigating the Observer August, and some lab flunky was explaining time, and poured water through a tube, to demonstrate how we usually experience time, one-way, first-in-first-out.  He then stopped up the tube, and filled it with water, then stopped up the other end, and said, I think these people experience time like this, all at once.

Okay, end break, and consider an explanation from time from LOST University, where spacetime is considered a landscape of events.  If we laid out all the events that are possible on a sheet of paper called space time, we could arrive at different places on that landscape by drawing a line (time) to travel between events.  Consider that time travel is ‘cheating’ by bending space time (the paper) and moving between two events not in a line (time) along space time, but through a space (from one side of the paper to the other) backdoor.

In that sense, and as I’m trying to understand it, everything happens at once, the concept of time is how we travel through space time.  But we only experience time as we move through it.  So as far as we’re concerned whatever happened, happened, along the line we’re traveling.

There have been hints of this that we’ve observed in Season 5.  Sawyer witnessing the birth of Aaron, just as we saw it in Season 1.  Locke telling Richard to tell past Locke that he’d have to die in order to bring the others back.  Sawyer remembering that his parents died while he was stuck in 1977.  This dual presence might even explain Christian Shepherd wondering around the island like he owns the place.

Consider the Variables (my team name for Sawyer, Juliet, Kate, Jack, Miles, Hurley and Jin) explode the bomb like Daniel (is he team Variable, or is he dead, because he was always meant to go back and get shot by his mom) told them to, thus creating (or really shifting to) a new timeline where the Incident never happened, no emergency sarcophagus for the magnetic anomaly at the Swan Station, no need for a failsafe, and no need for button pushing.  BUT, all those things have already happened, and they have always happened.  But our people have shifted lines at the point of the incident from the one where all the safety procedures were necessary to one where they are not needed.

So, what changes?  Sawyer is still an orphan (that already happened) and he’s now synced with his future self along that time line, but can recall the memories (as if a dream) of the past timeline only it’s 2004 and he’s back on Oceanic flight 815, maybe having lived out all the things that he did the first time.  Same with all the characters on that flight.

Who is on the island in 1977 (for real, not a Variable) that could have changed thing for people on the mainland?  I can’t think of anyone.  Remember the popular theory is that the Swan hatch with Radinzsky, Kelvin Inman and later Desmond was unknown to the hostiles (Widmore, Eloise, Benjamin) even up to the purge. Danielle’s research team didn’t come to the island because of the magnetic anomaly, so they’d still land to investigate the signal and be attacked by Smokie just as we saw in Jin’s journey through time.  Ben would still be a part of the purge, then make Widmore an outcast.

Some of my own pushback.  Eloise is pregnant with Daniel, perhaps, so Daniel is yet to be born, and this is a paradox, he’ll be born on a timeline where the magnetic anomaly has already been negated, and his life would be totally different, maybe a concert pianist.  But if he did that, then how did the Variables ever get the idea to explode the bomb.  Well two Daniels, just as there are two Lockes, two Christian’s…

I’ll need to ponder this more, but wanted to share it with the scads of people that want to read this! 😉

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